Well.
I never did transfer and the ordination happened without too much difficulty, but that conversation sure has stuck with me.
Here’s the backstory: Asbury, while thoroughly Methodist in theology and ethos, is not one of the thirteen official United Methodist Seminaries. It is much larger than any of those thirteen but from its inception has functioned as de facto loyal opposition: deeply steeped in Methodist thought yet not bound by all its denominational machinations.
And, as it played out, more conservative & orthodox in the theological education it provides to its students. What does that mean? Compared to denominational schools, it holds a higher view of the authority of Scripture, a greater urgency on the reality of heaven and hell, a stronger focus on the uniqueness of Jesus, and a more enduring commitment to historic Christian teaching on matters of sexuality. You can read Asbury’s Statement of Faith here.
That public commitment to orthodoxy and detailed list of “What We Believe” is unique among theological schools in the Methodist family.
Why does all this matter and what does it have to do with that conversation way back in 1987?
Because the assumption behind that representative’s advice was this: since Asbury is confessional and conservative, your education is not well rounded enough. You need to go a more liberal school to grow more tolerant.
As if because our school takes a stand we don’t ever read/encounter/think about opposing views.
In fact, back in September a blog comment caught my eye because it echoed those same sentiments in reference to Asbury’s president Tim Tennent: I can only gather from this that the free exchange of ideas is not a value at Asbury.
The fact is, nothing could be further from the truth. In my time there, we became well-versed with higher criticism of the bible, theologies of liberation, and the tenets of classic 20th century liberalism. More than a few of us came to regard portions of those perspectives as our own. From all I can tell, that same educational experience exists today.
Instead of ignoring the forces in the church that would separate our theology from the roots of the Apostles’ Creed, we dug deep into them.
I think the better question is this: at our most left-leaning schools, such as Claremont and Iliff and the recently beleagured St. Paul’s, are students being exposed to top notch evangelical thinking? Are they sitting at the digital feet of Ben Witherington, Thomas Oden, and, egad, even the Calvinist John Piper?
In my experience theological liberals hardly have a corner on the market of open-mindedness. Many of them, I suspect, shut their minds a long time ago.
Really, what I long for is the day when the theological landscape has shifted to the point that Annual Conference ordination representatives pull seminarians aside and say, “I’m not telling you that you have to transfer, but you might think of some time at Asbury. It might broaden your perspective a bit.”
There are 11 comments
Thanks for this. I visited a UM seminary when looking and asked a dean, “I’m looking for a pluralistic seminary. I want to be challenged and also to hear evangelical scholars. Do you have any?”
His answer, “no, not really. we have one who used to be evangelical.”
At that point I went to Asbury.
Talbot– thanks for this good word about our seminary. you represent it well. the good news is your closing aspirational hopes are becoming a reality. a growing and steady stream bishops and district superintendents and boards of ordained ministry representatives regularly visit our campus in search of graduates for their churches. In some of those cases they have definitely subscribed to a “if you can’t beat them, join them…. or at least get them in your churches you want to thrive.”
jd walt
Thanks Talbot for sharing this. I had a very similar experience in my commissioning preparations with the Board of Ordained Ministry in my conference as well (Detroit). I was asked why I chose Asbury over the “Big 13” and when I responded with much of what you have stated regarding the educational experiences there, I was then told that it may be wise for me to attend a more tolerant school. Now that I have graduated, I am preparing for full ordination and waiting to see if the question arises once again. Thanks for the encouraging post.
Talbot,
I was encouraged to see this post. This was my experience of Asbury, too. I think I was exposed to a good range of theological perspectives. I read narrative, feminist, liberation, and even process theologians. I even had one class – a UM Theology class, to boot! – where the prof had a clear agenda to promote liberation and narrative theologies (along with a strong leftist political stance) and argued fervently against any critiques of those perspectives.
Fortunately, my exposure to classic, orthodox, Trinitarian theology gave me enough to not be wholly swayed.
In short, I think my experience allowed me to learn from and about a plurality of theologies, but it also gave me classic Trinitarian theology to filter all others through. If other seminaries are focusing so much on new theologies that their students are deprived of that deeper-rooted, classic faith, I agree with your assessment: Asbury will provide a better-rooted and better-rounded education.
I’m a current student at Asbury Seminary and am thankful for the excellent education and spiritual transformation that I’ve found here.
I came to Asbury partly because I wanted to be exposed to “evangelical” point of view as someone who felt much more at home in Mainline Liberal Protestantism. I remember talking to folks who’d come to Asbury because I was concerned certain things I believed in politics might not be welcome. I was assured that they are open to most and they were right.
I spoke with a couple guys tonight and one brought up his experience at one of “the thirteen.” (I didn’t bring up this post.) He’d held largely mainstream orthodox views, but felt his views were unwelcome or openly opposed. The most extreme example that he volunteered was being told by a professor that his use of a masculine pronoun in a direct scripture quotation was wrong in a paper. He believes it was counted against his grade. (I will note that Asbury officially has a policy of inclusive language when referring to persons in papers, but not altering scripture.)
On the other hand, I know several students at Asbury who are very open to alternative theologies. They’ve written papers in classes arguing for open theism, process theology, and other things. They use books by leading thinkers in those areas and have even set up independent studies with professors to do further studies in these areas!
I won’t say it’s a pluralistic wonderland. There is a fair amount of antagonism toward Calvinism, though at America’s largest specifically Wesleyan seminary that may be expected, but I’ve found most professors and students are very open to discussing where we agree and disagree.
Fun fact: when I started looking at seminaries my DS’ only suggestion was that I apply to Vanderbilt, which also isn’t one of “the thirteen!”
I started “the process” in 2000 (ATS Class of ’04) and was ordained in 2008 in the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference, unofficial “home” of Drew.
During the 8 years, I never had any push-back for being an Asburian. In fact, I was later told by a self-professed liberal BOOM clergy member who was part of both my Commissioning and Ordination interview processes that his interactions with me over the years made him do a 180-degree shift in his view of ATS.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow.
When I sat before a select few of my conference’s Board of Ordained Ministry for my interview seeking ordination the very first question asked of me was, “Why Asbury?” They were openly hostile to my attendance at Asbury.
I chose Asbury because in my then conservative, Evangelical, orthodox UM church it had a long tradition of sending persons to Asbury and as long member of the Annual Conference I was upset with those extremely liberal graduates of offical UM seminaries who were being ordained. I wanted a solid seminary education without the liberal bias and I was not disappointed.
And as pointed out in earlier comments I was thoroughly exposed to all range of theological thought. As retirement comes in a few months I’ve never been sorry I went to Asbury!
I experienced similar pushback at the district level because the (Wesleyan) seminary I attended was deemed too conservative — I was required to take one class at a far more liberal seminary (not one of the official ones, and not even Wesleyan in theology). No one attending the liberal school has ever been required to take a course at my seminary.
Glad a comment on my blog led to such interesting thoughts.
I had a recent exchange with a nationally known pastor at high-profile UMC. He had written with skepticism about the church relying too much on Scripture as we will be embarrassed when “scholarship” undermines our doctrines.
After some back and forth, he wrote that his theological education was heavy on Marx and Freud and the hermeneutic of suspicion. Seminaries are obviously a key piece of fixing our problems, but I do not know how to deal with the clergy who “teach” doctrines at variance with historic Christianity and our own standards. They will be here for decades.
ats doesn’t make you a conservative, it brands you as such. When I was there, few really believed or read the bible.
I recently had a similar experience at a DCOM interview in reverse. The group gathered told me that instead of attending Garrett I should study at Wesley Seminary at Indiana Wesleyan University, a school not even approved by the United Methodist Church!
All in all I think both sides need to respect the other more. I have done my undergraduate Biblical Studies work at a school that is considered more evangelical, and I will be doing my M.Div at a school that is considered more progressive. I’m sure that I will minister with tools from each.